Terms & Conditions Power Panel Part 3: Drones and Open Carry of Firearms

Panelists:

Jason Bernstein, AEG Presents
Brent Daughrity, Anderson Benson Insurance
Tim Epstein, Duggan Bertsch, LLC

Moderated by:

Pam Matthews, IEBA


The 2022 installment of Terms & Conditions Power Panel focused on questions submitted in advance by IEBA Members.


Question: What’s up with all the drones at festivals and concerts?

“Artists want to use drones. Sponsors want to use drones,” said Jason Bernstein. “To capture cool shots, just archival stuff. My sponsors want to fly them through Ferris wheels [at Coachella] and do crazy stuff. And somehow, we're managing to get that done. But everyone's worried about having drones over audiences. Justin Bieber was using them inside arenas. Sure, if it weighs 3 oz. But what if there are 50 of these things and they all fall? There's going to be an issue. It's about insurance and indemnification. For the venue managers here who are like ‘We're not having drones on my property,’ you're going to lose shows because they're coming and they're coming fast. I spoke with a congressional subcommittee guy and it was very clear that we aren’t going to be able to stop from flying around. Legislation is opening up. There's going to be more and more of them. I can't necessarily keep them away from my festival and I am not allowed to shoot them down.”

Tim Epstein recommended paying close attention to your contracts with sponsors, “The contractor should be licensed as a pilot for unmanned aircraft. You need to be concerned about airspace, especially if you're in a busy area. You should be reaching out to the local FAA office. Sometimes you can coordinate that with local police. I have, on multiple occasions, directed police to shoot down drones and they have done it. The issue is guerrilla marketing – someone who is not a sponsor. We want to shut that down. You should look at what is your airspace and try to expand that out as far as you possibly can. You should coordinate that with local police and elected officials and with FAA. We had about two dozen drones go up right outside of our festival perimeter and do a synchronized thing to advertise a product. Frankly, it scared me. And we had to answer for it. The audience’s assumption was this clearly must be part of the festival. We had a major act on stage. They stopped halfway through a song because they got distracted. Festivals and venues, have your house in order. What happens when the guy who owns nearby property wants to launch a bunch of drones and put on a show? What happens if he wants to go up and film? You need to be prepared to communicate not only to the audience but also to the artist. You need a plan.” 

Bernstein added, “Part of what started the conversation is that, at Coachella, there's a bunch of airplanes towing banners. It's a horrible aesthetic. But it could be a bad actor doing bad stuff. I'm concerned that, if someone gets the right overhead view, it’s a security problem. I've told people ‘Don't send your emergency evacuation plan out by e-mail.’ Talk about it on site. For security reasons, I really don't want my festival layout out there. You don’t want to hand somebody your plan.”

“There are a handful of great companies that operate drones in a very above-board way. Stick with those companies,” Daughrity advised. “I have so many requests from random people starting a drone business. They have no idea what they're doing. I say, from the insurance market, you better have your ducks in a row. Underwriters are no longer into writing bad business. I know it's tough spend the money but do it right or don't do it at all. Because you will run into a roadblock with insurance placement.”

Question: Did Live Nation cancel an event in Georgia because of open carry of firearms laws?

“I wholeheartedly applaud Live Nation for cancelling a very major event in Atlanta,” said Bernstein. “Route 91 was the worst mass shooting in history so it's a very serious issue. It's real. I talked about guns at concerts on this panel a couple years ago. We've never wanted people bringing guns into venues. I had a lengthy conversation with a guy – I don't know if he was FBI or CIA – about guns and concerts. He goes, ‘Well, if no one's got a gun, you won’t have a problem. Somebody might get karate chopped, but they're not going to get shot.’

“Texas is the only place where you can go to an NFL game with a weapon because Texas law supersedes the NFL. Stadium shows are getting bigger and bigger and there's more and more of them. Stadiums get a bunch of shows. Bad Bunny is now planning to the set the record for the largest indoor attendance at AT&T Stadium. Holy cow, that's a lot of people. I don't know that we want a gun there. But it's Texas. Most of these statutes have been passed. The NRA has been incredibly active. They draft the legislation and they give it to their buddy in the State House of Representatives or the State Senate. And it's written very pro-gun. Nothing wrong with that. They have the right to have those opinions, but there's usually someone present who says, ‘Wait, we're a school and we have high school athletics. We have college athletics. We're a pro sports team.’ They're present in the room to say you cannot bring it into a professional athletic event. But there was no one there advocating for our industry. With the ADA laws, everyone's aware that you can have service dogs and other animals. There's a thing for miniature horses. I don't know if anyone's had a miniature horse at their venue or their event. It’s in the legislation because there was one guy who used a miniature horse to tow his wheelchair. He was at the meeting and he spoke up. No one in our industry has been speaking up.”

“In many states, your car is your home,” Bernstein continued. “And if you're camping at a festival, that's your residence. I can stop you from bringing a gun into the festival. I can't stop you from bringing it in the campgrounds.” 

Bernstein concluded, “People go to The Rolling Stones from around the world. People fly in for Paul McCartney. All those people need hotels. They need airfare. They're gonna need Ubers and they’ll eat at restaurants. If people follow Live Nation’s lead, they might say ‘I’m not playing that market. I'll go somewhere else.’ So, it's not a gun control issue – it’s a Convention & Visitors Bureau issue. Because you just lost a massive influx of people and their money. Now you can go to the legislature. We don't need to outlaw guns. But let's just not have them at concerts and sporting and athletic events. It's a little safer, I think. Even the RNC and the DNC have gun free zones. If anyone disagrees with my position and you think there's a good reason to have a gun at a show, you can talk to me about it. I'd be very curious to know the argument for why, if you're going to see The Wiggles, you need your six-shooter. Oh, you're gonna bring a semi-automatic? Okay? Cool. Bring it.”

“Obviously we're in a very divisive political landscape right now,” said Daughrity. “We’ve seen the NBA pull out of Virginia or West Virginia due to a bathroom bill. You're going to see a lot more of this happening. We’ve been working with Lloyds to craft language to possibly pick up some of these legislative changes. If a law that impacts an event changes within X days of that event, a cancellation is triggered. We've been working on it for about 13 months. The challenging thing is every state, every city has different laws. I think you're going to see a lot of artists not playing venues that allow guns.”

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Terms & Conditions Power Panel Part 2: Contracts … and yet another discussion of COIs

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Buying Talent and Promoting Concerts in the Here and Now