Indies to Artists & Agents: We Get the Job Done!

Panelists:

Eric Barleen, Another Planet
Jamie Loeb, Nederlander Concerts
Kirk Peterson, Dayglo Presents
Tim Taber, Transparent Productions

Moderated by:

Andrew Farwell, Outback Presents

Why Does Being Unique and Independent Matter?

Moderator Andrew Farwell with Outback Presents began, “We're all independent and we're proud of that. We're all coming from completely different backgrounds. We don't really have much crossover so that's an exciting part of this discussion. Why does being unique and independent matter? And how do you maintain your competitive edge?”

For Another Planet’s Eric Barleen, it's creating a platform and stepping stone for artists, particularly in the Bay Area and Northern California.  He said, “Whether that's starting with an act at our 500-cap club, The Independent, or playing the Fox or bringing them up to the Greek Theater or, of course, the opportunities we have with Outside Lands and Life is Beautiful. I always thought that my company was the best in the areas where we do a lot. Then the format changed, even for us as independents. We're now buying blocks of 30, 40, 50 shows and we're going across the country. We often partner with Live Nation. We partner with AEG. We partner with Nederlander. It’s just what you gotta do. But I think there's something about the independent spirit that is truer to the music. Getting scrappy, fighting for that last ticket, never giving up on the show, believing in new artists, building them from the start. The bigger companies are still booking 500-cap clubs and building careers, but I think there is something about the independent spirit. We might take a risk that doesn't seem like a good business decision for a major company. I think indies are always going to fill a valuable slot. It’s about being adaptable – finding spaces or cities, looking for new venues and new festival properties. I think the detail and the heart we put into shows separates us. We all wear a lot of hats within our company, and we are very collaborative. That could be discussing ticket prices on a club show versus an arena show or what new carpet we should put in the Fox Theater hallway. It's a pretty open discussion amongst everybody. We've got a great team who's out at shows every night and back in the office the next morning.”

“A vital part of being an independent is just scraping to not be on the outside of the conversation,” said Kirk Peterson of Dayglo Presents. “So much of the flow of this business goes on between major agencies and the major promoters. As an independent, there are a few things you have to do: make sure you're engaged with the niche you're working & specialize so you can be an expert and be engaged internally as well with agents, managers, and artists so you have a relationship that is undeniable.”

Nederlander Concerts’ Jamie Loeb added, “We strive not to do anything cookie cutter. We pay attention, and we love and care about each event. Being independent means we get to stay true to who we are and who we want to be as a company. Our owner, Jimmy Nederlander, is very good about letting us do what we need to do to get our jobs done and trusts us to do the right thing in both the short and long term. Communication is a key to what we do. We're talking to the building and we're talking to local media. We're studying the market – the needs, the concerns, and the desires of the building and the patrons. Having a good understanding of the building and the community it serves helps us put artists into the right rooms. We call. We e-mail. We meet face to face. We don't just send a text. Especially as an independent, you must keep pursuing that relationship and tell your story. We try to connect on a personal level.”

Tim Taber of Transparent Productions summed his philosophy up with one word: relationship. “We've taken the stance that Transparent is really a service company. We work a lot in churches, and you’ve got to be patient. We're serving and loving on the venue people – in the churches but also in arenas. It's been fun to see our team praying for an usher whose mom has cancer. That's kind of awesome. This mindset obviously translates to the artist – how we make sure that artist has a great day. They're going to be on the road for a hundred days a year. How do you make it special for them? Maybe get them off site do something fun? Find out their favorite candy bar? Whatever is takes. Little touches. Same with the crew. Sometimes people overlook that sound guy or lighting guy or the tech. It’s in how we take care of people. People enjoy working with us. That's never gonna replace putting butts in seats and having the walk-out be more than the offer. But in that holistic approach, we try to serve everybody we come in contact with and prove that our little tiny niche to be fruitful.”

“I love that you said you're a service company,” Farwell replied. “We're all service companies. I think the term client is so broad because it’s the venue & staff and the touring crew, the artist, the agent, and the manager. There are so many people involved in our day-to-day operations and we need to remember that. We provide white glove treatment. We’re taking care of everybody because that's kind of our measuring stick. Sure, we are booking shows to sell tickets but we really provide services.”

New Opportunities & Goals

Farwell encouraged his panelists to talk new opportunities, “What are you doing for new talent or new agents or new buildings? What are you doing for your outreach? What are you doing to be more accessible? What is your goal and who's on your target list?”

Tim Taber answered, “A few years ago, there was a realization for us – we needed to expand beyond the Christian music on CCM radio. It's very adult contemporary. There's also a worship sector. These are both predominantly white music. So, we built teams to go beyond that. I'm having fun on our first gospel tour this fall with CeCe Winans. It's selling really well, and she's having a good time. She has signed up for another 24 shows in the spring.  I would really like to find a good fit in the Latin space and then Asian too. In Korea there's a 100,000-person church, and I wonder if Korean Christians in America would want to hear their worship team. We could roll the dice, fly them out and give them some shows, and see what happens. It’s about getting beyond what we currently do and grow. I'd love to see that in 2023 we have our first Latin tour. We've hired folks in that space who know that world. Same with gospel – I’d love to expand on the work that we've done with CeCe to launch some other gospel tours. Then hopefully flying around the world, scouting & finding groups we could bring over. Just test things, see what happens, and build from there. We'll probably do 500- 600 shows next year. When we're at 1,000 shows, I’d love to see half of them not in the core business we're doing today.”

Peterson shared his take on finding new talent, “Oftentimes, new talent is right under your nose. That's to say that you're missing out on opportunities if you're not talking to the intern or the assistant about what they're listening to. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the times that I was turned on to somebody by somebody we work with. With all the inbound that's happening, and all the defense we're playing, it's just so busy. But I encourage our team to take time every day to think about three mutually-agreeable-date offers. Or just pick up the phone for no good reason and talk to an agent you just had a good show with last week. If you've had success with somebody on an agent’s roster, there's a good chance they’re tapped into something bigger. There are a lot of really good young agents who have a stranglehold on a small genre of music.”

Barleen agreed, “I was hired 15 years ago to open the mail and now I get to book some of the most historic and beautiful venues in the world. We try to keep the door open for everybody. We always say there's no ceiling, no opportunity you can't be part of. We have folks who work in production and also work on our management team, who work in production but also book comedy. We've hosted a lot of job fairs over the years – kind of open auditions for open-ended jobs within the venues and at Outside Lands. We bring in thousands of temporary employees for that weekend and a lot of those relationships have grown into full time work. We work closely with the UC Berkeley campus and have a terrific internship program with them. In terms of industry relationships, it's just being open to new music. We're fortunate to get to experience a lot of different music and it comes from those trusted relationships and trusting someone who has a good ear. It’s being open to new trends and trying new things.”

Barriers To Entry For An Independent

Andrew asked his panelists about barriers to entry for an independent. “I think there’s a trust issue,” answered Loeb. “Somebody's got to be able to trust that a new independent promoter has the money to pay the artist, hire the security, treat the venue well, and treat the artist the way that they need to be treated. Things have gone so wrong in so many ways that have been very public. There's a lack of a willingness to trust and give somebody a chance. That's why, as an independent promoter trying to break in, honesty is key now more than ever. We've all done the fake-it-‘til-you-make-it thing. But now, you have to make it. Because falling on your face could land you in jail. If you don't have the goods, don't make promises.”

Peterson shared another perspective: “I get Jerry [Mikelson]'s point yesterday about working with acts for a long time, taking them to the arena level, and then you lose them. That sucks. But there’s a flip side. I see Josh Ragsdale down here from Roswell, NM. Josh put a venue in Roswell because it's his hometown. Now he's grown beyond his 600-cap room and he's doing shows at a horse racing track and doing 1,500-cap rooms. It's about building something from nothing. Nobody even knew that Roswell, NM was a stop. But it’s a decent routing spot from here to there. I think those opportunities are all over the U.S. for people to jump on. But you have to stomach that first big $20,000, $30,000, $50,000 loss. And have the resources to roll the dice again. I do think that indies – and even people who aren't even indies yet – can move a lot quicker on fresh new ideas. We are working on some permanent infrastructure on the LOCKN’ farm site to turn it into more of a boutique experience that's really artist-focused, as well as other events on the property outside of the music space to make it a more of a 365-revenue stream. We've got a few different markets in development for Brooklyn Bowl and a couple of other smaller venue projects going.”

“That's great point,” said Farwell, “I can't remember when we've had this many brand new venues opening up. In the legends panel, they were talking about how you get stuck in your old ways of routing and then this new venue pops up and creates a whole new market in some respects.”

Farwell recapped the discussion, “There are more shows than ever. But a common theme on this panel has been the right show in the right venue. And this is a relationship-based industry. It's incredibly important to maintain your long-standing relationships while you foster new ones. Take care of these partnerships with co- promoters, venues, agents, managers. That's at the forefront of what we do and we wouldn't be here without those relationships, whether it's through venue exclusivity or festivals or just finding your niche. The flexibility that we maintain identifies who we are as independents. A key point is that we're successful. And we're going to continue to do what we're doing to continue to be successful.”